Brian & Gabe LIVE #23 - Part 2: Why We Love (and hate) VDI! and our new book on the matter!

Listen to the whole show here!



Brian Madden:            And then you could – I mean, I don’t know.  It could be cool.  And then you’d have a Cisco terminal server built like the old kind of terminal server like from the ‘70s or the ‘80s, right?

Gabe Knuth:               ‘70s.

Brian Madden:            Jack, you don’t know what we’re talking about, do you?

Gabe Knuth:               They probably existed.

Brian Madden:            Terminal servers were these, they were like switches.  They were, they were appliances that threw a whole bunch of green-screen dumb terminals, and like mucks them all together over one connection back to the data center. 

Jack Madden:              Okay.

Brian Madden:            And the device that broke them out was called a terminal server.  Which is actually where the name “terminal server” from Microsoft came from because it was like Windows Terminal Server.

Jack Madden:              It was like the throwback device.

Brian Madden:            Well, what – I mean –

Gabe Knuth:               It was, and it was literally my first exposure to the phrase terminal server.  I was, I was a, I was an expert on those goddamn things.  A year before I met Brian, and we started doing the metaframe stuff, I was actually – So Brian’s like, “Have you heard of these terminal servers?”  He’s so excited about it.  I’m like, “Yeah, they’re kind of boring, man.”  And so, so I had to be reeducated.

Brian Madden:            I still remember that conversation, Gabe.  We talked about this a few times, but I – The first time I met Gabe, we were – I don’t remember if we were both under 21.  I think we were both underage, and we were going to –

Gabe Knuth:               Yeah, you had turned 21 because I remember going to your 21st birthday party.

Brian Madden:            Right.  So it’s – When I met you –

Gabe Knuth:               So after that.  So we were both – You were 20 and I was probably 19.

Brian Madden:            And we were going to a work happy hour, but we wore suits and ties so we could walk into the bar with like all of our coworkers, and it was fine.  And Gabe new the way to the bar, and he drove his royal blue Cavalier like a bat out of hell, and I’m following him, I’m like, “Who is this hotrod kid?  Like, you don’t have to impress me, you know, with like your crazy driving.”

                                    And we get to the bar, we have our drinks, go back to the parking lot, and we’re talking about like – I guess I was probably selling you on that terminal server concept, the Citrix stuff, and talking about that in the parking lot.  I’m like, “Man, I’m telling you, this could be huge, man.  It could be cool.”

                                    And 16 years later, whatever, here we are.

Gabe Knuth:               Yeah, here we are.  So – No, David, that, you know, it was ’70 – It was probably early ‘90s technology.  But “Back in the ‘70s, Gabe,” says David.

Brian Madden:            So a couple –

Gabe Knuth:               I was born in the Carter administration.  That still counts.

Brian Madden:            Yeah, you were – Gabe was born on the day that Skylab fell back to Earth.

Gabe Knuth:               That’s, that is true.

Brian Madden:            So the –

Gabe Knuth:               My mother blames it on me.

Brian Madden:            Downhill.  So a couple other things I want to mention, though, on the Wyse.  I don’t know if you guys read all the comments on that Dell buying Wyse article.  Dennis Gunderev, a Bright Forums speaker and CTP friend of ours, wrote that – He was writing about partners, and like what this means for partners.  So there’s a lot of Wyse partners that I guess have to become Dell partners.  But what if they’re Wyse and HP.  I don’t know.  So there’s always that, which I guess is something that me not being a partner, I don’t think about that so much.  But that’s just one of those things that has to be sorted out, I guess, with this stuff.

Gabe Knuth:               I mean, are there – I haven’t had to buy hardware in a long time.  Are Dell partners – Every time I bought from Dell, I just call a Dell rep and buy something from Dell, So maybe, maybe –

Brian Madden:            I think that’s the point.

Gabe Knuth:               Partner goes away and it’s more direct now, or –

Brian Madden:            Yeah, like that’s, that’s it.  Like what happens to the – You’re at the, the Wyse reseller channel.  Does that – But Dell, Dell is famous for being direct with everything.  So yeah, that’s a good question.

Gabe Knuth:               And so another part of that, too, was if Dell – You’re right.  Dell’s famous for being direct with everything, and people are trying to think about how Wyse is going to fit into that model because Wyse, they’re – There’s not many people that just go, “I want 100 Wyse terminals.  Send them to me now, please.” 

                                    And then, you know, because they work with putting custom, custom builds or whatever onto, onto the machines as they’re shipped out, and, and that way – Well, that’s just one of the things that like – I don’t know.  They wanted to know how that works in the Dell ship direct model.  And I, and I feel like that probably doesn’t change.  Dell does that already.  Dell already has an infrastructure to support that kind of a thing. 

                                    So I feel like in that regard it’s all right.  HP probably had the same challenges when they onboarded Neoware.  So I mean, and they’ve turned that into a hell of a business.  So I don’t think that there’s gonna be any goofy problems with that in that regard.  But I, I do think that there probably is some legs to this whole partner reseller thing.

Brian Madden:            The, the only thing that’s interesting – So Steve Greenberg, also BriForum speaker, has wrote that – He wrote that thin clients to Dell could be like candy, where Dell could just give them away to close deals.  Because Wyse – And I don’t know whether HP has done this in the past.  Wyse, obviously, this is their business, so they can’t – Sure they’ve got price flexibility in negotiations, but someone like Dell can be like, “Hey, you buy our expensive SanBlade, whatever, on the back end, and we’ll throw in our thin clients for free or for $50 or something like that.” 

                                    And Steve has said, “We have seen Dell give away Citrix licenses in order to close deals.”  So if they’re willing to give away Citrix licenses, then I’m sure they – He says, “I’m sure they’d be willing to give away thin clients also.”  Which is another interesting aspect.

Gabe Knuth:               Did you ever see that Simpsons where they, Bart and Lisa went to work for that and they just kept paying them with stock because they didn’t have any money, and they actually had toilet papers full of stock?  Like toilet paper rolls, and each square had like, was a little stock certificate? 

                                    So they’re like, “Hey, help yourself to some more stock.”  And that’s – When you say that like Dell gives away Citrix licenses, I picture that like a toilet paper roll full of Citrix licenses.  Like, “Help yourself to more Citrix licenses.”

Brian Madden:            Yeah, so yeah.  Michael Dell, they have Michael Dell speak at – Remember, he was like the interview guest at Synergy Keynotes?  And it’s like, you know, in order for him – To get Michael Dell at Keynote Synergy, then it’s like, “Give us another 50,000 licenses we can give away.”

                                    The final thing I’ll say on this, this, for, for the Dell buying Wyse, which is pretty hilarious, and I don’t have the source of who said this.  But Wyse has all that “no PC branding.”  You know, like the word PC with the big circle like and a slash through it and everything?  And like the whole – So I’m assuming that we’re going to see the whole Wyse “no PC”, I assume we’ll sort of see that disappear at some point.

Gabe Knuth:               Yeah, probably.  Maybe already.

Jack Madden:              So collect those stickers.  They’ll be collectible in 10 years.

Brian Madden:            Yeah.

Gabe Knuth:               I didn’t realize this.  The press release said that this would complete in second quarter of fiscal year ‘13, and I was, I actually happened to be on a call with some guys from Dell that were very excited about the news.  It had nothing to do with this.  And I said, “Do you guys have some sort of weird fiscal calendar?”  And they said, “Yeah, we’re in ’13 now.” 

                                    So, and that jives with what Jeff McNaught in his first comment to the article that you posted, said synergy will be really interesting.  So that could be – Really, I guess May, May and June, that’s – It’s definitely, we’ll see something for sure, I guess, in that timeframe.

Brian Madden:            I don’t think anyone knows when second half – I, I want to say that Dell’s fiscal year is like February to February, something like that.  I don’t remember –

Gabe Knuth:               Oh, you know what?  They did say that it was – Yeah, it could be like May, June, and July is their Q2, I think.  So –

Brian Madden:            And, so they’re half –

Gabe Knuth:               Yeah.

Brian Madden:            Yeah, who knows.  Anyway, all right.  Let’s, let’s move on, as we burned 27 minutes talking about Dell buying Wyse.

Gabe Knuth:               27 minutes.

Brian Madden:            Yeah.  So, I don’t know, what you guys want to talk about?  Let’s, let’s quickly maybe –

Gabe Knuth:               I want to talk about why you are a goddamn VDI hater.

Brian Madden:            You know who else accused me of that was Wyse.  And so now like – Shut you up now, doesn’t it?

Gabe Knuth:               And look what happened to them.  Yeah.

Brian Madden:            So there’s a career in, in making and hating on Brian.

Gabe Knuth:               Acquired by a guy that actually likes your book.  Or our book, I guess, not yours.  It, it’s just – You know, so I bring that up just because it’s funny.  There’s, you can tell – Via Twitter you see a lot, and there’s been a few emails and other comments elsewhere and things like that.  But you can tell that people that just see the title of the book, and they’re like, “Oh, really?” 

Brian Madden:            Okay, so we’re –

Gabe Knuth:               And then, and then don’t actually read the book or even the summary of the book to learn what we’re actually gonna talk about.

Brian Madden:            Yeah, so that’s the – That’s – I mean, so okay.  So obviously we’re talking about this book, it’s called The VDI Delusion.  I just posted the link in the chat.  You know, Gabe, Jack, and me co-wrote it together, and we – And so it’s available now on Kindle and Nook, and it’s been selling pretty well, only on eBook versions.  The hardcovers are being printed right now, as a matter of fact.  I didn’t you this, the hard – The proofs should actually arrive today.  For hardcovers, for some reason, they have to do physical proofs.  They can’t do a soft proof.  So those should arrive in the office today, and so we’ll have to like look those over and then mail them back to them.

                                    And so, and then we’re looking like May, like second week of May for the hardcovers to be available. 

                                    Obviously, obviously calling it The VDI Delusion, you know, we, we – Well, we picked the title on the show, I think.  But yeah, it was funny because it was definitely people who, you know, talked about us being VDI haters.

                                    So I wrote – Like my, my, my defense of that is I wrote this article about why VDI is awesome.  And so I posted that last week, and it’s kind of funny, because Simon Crosby writes all these things called, like, “VD Why?”  Or maybe Reuben wrote that first, where it’s like saying that VDI – You know, about kinda hating on VDI.

                                    And so I wrote why VDI, like, actually like why people use VDI and where VDI is awesome.  And I think that’s, I think that comes across in the book, is that our whole delusion is that it’s not the be-all, end-all.  It’s not about saving money, it’s not about saving management, it’s just a new desktop forum factor.

Gabe Knuth:               And it was everybody’s.  That, that, the whole, the whole promise of VDI was this animal that was created by just massive amounts of marketing, you know, what, four or five years ago?  How long ago?  What year is it?

Brian Madden:            Six years ago.  Yeah.

Gabe Knuth:               Yeah.  Four or five years ago.  2007, right?

Brian Madden:            Yeah.

Gabe Knuth:               So massive amounts of money and, and marketing that all went into – You know, that went into reputable, and Gartner predicted that by 2013, VDI would be a $65 billion market.  And we really thought that this was gonna change the world.  And then we realized that wait, this is different than that.  And that’s what this book is about.  It’s not about how we hate VDI, it’s just about how, “Hey, look, let’s dial it back a little bit.”  It, it’s, it’s still, it’s still a great technology, but there’s other stuff that makes more sense in situations, too.

Brian Madden:            Did, did you see – So if you go to the Amazon page for the book, it’s a cool feature.  I didn’t even know this existed.  There’s a – On the bottom of the page, it says “popular highlights.”  And what happens –

Gabe Knuth:               Oh, it’s awesome.  I saw it yesterday.  Isn’t it cool?

Brian Madden:            Yes.  Because for those, those who have read things on Kindle – And by the way, you don’t have to read the book on a Kindle.  There’s Kindle app for, for iPad, there’s Kindle app for BlackBerry, for Android, for – There’s a web.  You can go to and there’s an HML 5 app.  There’s Windows and Mac app, desktop apps to reading in the book.

                                    But these electronic e-book apps, you can highlight different text, and then it saves your custom highlights and all that kind of stuff.  But it, it, it anonymously – If you highlight something that other people have highlighted, like you can make it so that you show what areas have been popularly highlighted. 

                                    And then the number-one most highlighted phrase in the book is something that Gabe wrote.  “If you speak to 10 different people at Microsoft about how VDI licensing works, you’ll get 11 different answers.”  So –

Gabe Knuth:               I was kinda proud of that.

Brian Madden:            But I, I do like – There’s actually three or four of these that Gabe – Of the popular highlights, there’s a lot of these that come from Gabe.  I mean, they’re sections that Gabe wrote.  But I, I’m proud though, if you look at the popular highlights, I feel like the, the, the community –

Gabe Knuth:               They’re the ones – I mean, people are getting it.

Brian Madden:            Yeah.  Like –

Gabe Knuth:               Right?

Brian Madden:            “Ironically” – This is a popular highlight.  “Ironically, people save money with desktop virtualization only because they use the technology to deliver an inferior desktop product when compared to their existing physical desktops.”  That right there is like – You could almost say if you were to boil this whole book down to a Tweet –

Jack Madden:              The next edition, we’ll just put that one on the back of the, on the back cover.

Brian Madden:            I should the popular highlights on the back cover.  That’s cool, you know?  Like I like that idea.

Jack Madden:              Yeah.

Brian Madden:            So –

Jack Madden:              “People with Kindles who bought this book before you bought the physical version” –

Brian Madden:            “People who are in the know and have read this three weeks ago said” –

                                    So yeah, that’s –

Gabe Knuth:               But yeah, this popular highlights thing is great because it does show that like people are highlighting the things that, that, that, the important points that we were trying to drive home.

Brian Madden:            Yeah.

Gabe Knuth:               Which is really cool.  Jack, there’s one from you in there that I think I wrote, but I stole from your article almost directly about the extended roaming rights in Windows and Office and stuff.  So I mean, I think that there’s – Yeah.  There’s just so much stuff that I, I, I’m really happy to see that people are getting it.

Brian Madden:            The best part about that extended roaming rights highlight is it’s like a whole paragraph.  Because you can’t highlight – When it comes to Windows licensing extended roaming rights, you can’t highlight just a sentence.  It’s like the highlights – The entire paragraph is highlighted.

Gabe Knuth:               Oh yeah.

Jack Madden:              Well, because it takes 14 sentences to explain every single component of the concept.

Gabe Knuth:               And I think Mic – There’s licensing in a few of these, too, yeah.  The whole like how to, like how you qualify for SA and what you get for that, and yeah.  It’s, it’s just – We could probably write a whole book on that.  And I can’t imagine how much lead time that would take.  Like how much time you would have to spend disclaiming the fact that you don’t know all the stuff about Microsoft licensing, but here’s a book anyway.  But I think people would buy the hell out of that book.

Brian Madden:            Yeah, I, I – It’s, it’s been fun.  And I think we wrote before, you know, we’ve got other books that we’re now working on.  We’re going to do a consumerization of IT book and we’re gonna do a mobile device management book.  And I don’t know if anyone has any feelings on which ones we should do first.  Frankly – Actually, when I say “we,” I think Jack’s writing the MDM book.  I don’t know anything about that, really.  Well, I’ll proofread it. 

                                    But so these, these are our, our next book projects, and I don’t know.  I really like the idea – I mean, writing books is fun, and it’s been, you know, as we said, six something years, eight years since we did a book before this one.  So this is really cool.

Jack Madden:              So now we’re making up for it by writing three of them in six months.

Brian Madden:            In a year.  Yeah.

                                    So, so let’s see.  What else – We, we, can we talk about today.  Let’s look at BriForum.  So the plans for BriForum London are coming along nicely, and our sessions have been submitted.  We announced the sessions I think –

Jack Madden:              Yeah, they’re, they’re actually, they’re live on the website, if you can find them.

Brian Madden:            What, what do you mean?  Is it –

Jack Madden:              The, the, the session agenda is live on the website.

Brian Madden:            But – Oh, the London –

Jack Madden:              The London, yeah.

Brian Madden:            The Lon – The BriForum London website is a really weird – It’s a really weird format, too.  Let me – I’ll post the link to the extent that I can.

Gabe Knuth:               It was, it was sort of experimental.  We’ve, we managed to complain enough about it that they’re, the Chicago site will be back to the old navigable way.  But the London site – If you guys have any questions, just email us.

Brian Madden:            Yeah.  But the agenda’s there, and there’s still a few more speakers that we’re working with.  I don’t think everything’s published.  I know not every session is published because I haven’t submitted – I haven’t like decided what I’m speaking on yet.

Jack Madden:              Yeah, yeah, that was gonna be my next question.  I think, I think I’m gonna be posting my title in the abstract today.  Do either of you have any idea what your sessions are going to be about?

Brian Madden:            I don’t.  I don’t know.  What should we talk about?  So Jack, you’re doing a session on MDM, I think, right?

Jack Madden:              Yeah.

Brian Madden:            And I don’t know.  I think for Synergy I submitted “How to Fail at VDI.”  But that’s kind of maybe a little played, especially for the BriForum audience.  So I haven’t decided yet.  I don’t know if I want to do consumerization.  I don’t know.  I should probably get on that, though.

Gabe Knuth:               We can’t do “How to Fail at VDI” because Dan Brinkman’s already doing that.

Brian Madden:            Oh, okay.

Gabe Knuth:               So yeah.  So we may be able to do a consumerization-oriented, like the FUIT kinda things, is what I was thinking of.  Although there is a session about that, too.  So yeah.  It’s – This one’s a little bit tough.  So, and really, we just need to sit down and identify some holes.  We think we still have to, we have to – Oh no no, Ron submitted one, too, so we have to make sure Jackie has that all set up.

                                    But I think – Jackie’s the editorial person that like actually organizes all of this stuff.  Because we are absolutely terrible at that. 

Jack Madden:              How about just the future –

Gabe Knuth:               Which is why we haven’t figured out our sessions yet.

Jack Madden:              Just the, what the future enterprise desktop will really look like?

Brian Madden:            Oh, just like the book?  Yeah.  I mean, and so – Yeah.  So we’ll sort that out.

Jack Madden:              Because I feel like there’s a lot in the book that, that – There’s a lot in the book that we, we, I don’t think we’ve really put in too many articles before. 

Brian Madden:            So that was the big surprise of the book.  The book is all new.  I mean, there was – We, we looked through our old articles from the past five years looking for other, just looking for ideas to make sure we sort of covered everything.  But when we started writing that book, we thought that we would be able to cut and paste a lot of older articles into the book.  And it ended up being that there was maybe, there was a few sort of chunks of, of sections that came from articles, but I bet you of the 60,000 words, only like 500 are cut and pasted from previous articles.

                                    And there’s a – Yeah, there’s a lot, a lot of stuff in there that we never wrote down before.

Jack Madden:              If, if you do a session that’s, like the Chapter 11, “Putting It All Together” and you know, with like Horizon and –

Brian Madden:            Yeah.

Jack Madden:              Citrix cloud gateway and, and –

Brian Madden:            I like that.

Jack Madden:              Stuff like that.

Brian Madden:            Yeah.  I like that.  And so the last thing on BriForum I’ll mention.  So BriForum U.S., this session submission, the call for papers is open now.  And so just a reminder that all are welcome to submit sessions and to speak at BriForum.  Go to, click on the Chicago BriForum link, and then we’ve got – It’s another month, I think we’ve got.  You’ve got some time.  But if we pick your session –

Gabe Knuth:               Yeah.

Brian Madden:            For you to speak, then we will, you know, we pay for your airfare, your hotel, BriForum admission, all that kind of stuff.

                                    Ooh, and I don’t think I told you guys this.  Okay, so last week I’m in Indiana.  Fort Wayne, Indiana.  And to speak at –

Gabe Knuth:               The thriving metropolis of Fort Wayne, Indiana.

Brian Madden:            Okay, so the only way – So I always Wikipedia these cities when I go there just to see – You know, just to, like – So I can like put some local, you know, like references into my show.

Jack Madden:              “Hello, Fort Wayne.”

Brian Madden:            Yeah.  And so Fort Wayne, it says it has three, like 300,000 citizens, you know, population.  Second-biggest city in Indiana, 74th biggest city in the U.S.  Way bigger than Akron, where we come from, which is kind of surprising to me because I thought, “Okay, Akron is a real city.”  It felt like a real city.  So Fort Wayne must be like a real city.

                                    So I land there on Sunday night and I don’t know, I don’t know where they hide these 300,000 people.  They sure weren’t downtown or at the airport.  And the only way that there’s 300,000 people in Fort Wayne, Indiana, is if the Fort Wayne border goes from like, I don’t know, Indianapolis to Lake Nunavut.  And it’s like – If it’s a 3.5 million square miles, okay, maybe there’s 300,000 people there. 

                                    So I get down there and –

Gabe Knuth:               You know what?  It does look like it’s about the size of San Francisco’s outline.  So you probably fit 300,000 people in there if you wanted to.


Brian Madden:            So –

Gabe Knuth:               Like 40 square miles.

Brian Madden:            So I stayed in this brand-new hotel downtown.  They got a ballpark downtown, all this kind of stuff.  I go do some work, I come down to get a nightcap at the bar, like 10 after 11, the bar’s closed.  And so I go back upstairs.

                                    And next day I come down, they have a Starbucks.  Like one of the hotel Starbucks.  But they have on top of the espresso machine, they have the three paper cups with the words “venti,” “grande,” and “tall” written on the cups because I think that the Fort Wayne hotel clientele are like, you know, in this situation like, “I’ll have a large.”  “We don’t have large.  Large is venti.”

Jack Madden:              Oh, we’re gonna get some complaints about this one.

Brian Madden:            It’s – This is a true fact, though.  I’m absolutely not making this up.  So I, I took a photograph of it, and I will – Oh, my phone’s on my desk.  I wonder if it’s in my iPhoto.  I will Tweet this right now.  The picture of this, of this machine.

                                    So, so I order a grande nonfat latte, like my go-to drink, and there’s two people working, one at the cash register, one at the back of the espresso machine.  And they’re asking what flavor syrup I want in it.  And I said, “No, just plain.”  And she’s like, “Plain?”  And I’m like, “Yeah, just plain.”  And then she goes, like, to the person behind her, like, “Hey, he wants plain.”  “He wants plain?”  They talked back and forth on it.

                                    Oh, cool, Justin’s brought –

Gabe Knuth:               Can I just get a cup of coffee-flavored coffee?

Brian Madden:            Thanks.  Justin’s brought my phone here.  So oh yeah.  And here’s – Okay, so, so here, here’s the – You know what, I don’t know what I’m doing, so I –

Gabe Knuth:               You and Matt.  Yeah.

Brian Madden:            I can’t, I can’t talk.  I can’t talk and Tweet at the same time.  But look, Jack, you can see it’s real.  Like here’s the, here’s the picture there, and there’s the, there’s the –

Gabe Knuth:               For those who are listening, Brian is showing Jack a photo on his phone.

Brian Madden:            I’ll hold it to the camera.  Where is the camera?

Jack Madden:              If you, yeah.  If you find this on YouTube later –

Brian Madden:            But so anyway, they – And they spent like 10 minutes, I swear to God, I’m not making this up, figuring out how to refund me 50 cents because they figured it wasn’t fair for me to pay full price for the coffee if I wasn’t even gonna have flavor in it. 

                                    Anyway, though, so this event I was at, there’s a company called Do It Best.  A hardware store company, right?  They got like the big red trucks with the, with the yellow letters, and so it’s Do It Best.  This company, they have this event they call Techapalooza, and it’s an, it’s an, it’s an internal event for their own employees like of their IT department.  So their headquarters is in Fort Wayne.  And they have this event, and they, they –

                                    But what’s cool is, is – So it’s for their own employees, and they hire speakers and like there’s some people from Gartner, and I was in giving a keynote on consumerization and talked about VDI and stuff.  But they, they invite members of the community to attend also.  And I think it’s free for community members.

                                    So Do It Best puts this on, and there’s like 50 employees who are all the IT staff members of the company of Do It Best.  There’s also other people who work at like random other businesses in the greater Fort Wayne area.  So like that – First I want to give a shout-out to Do It Best because that’s kind of badass that like they do it for themselves, and since they don’t compete with all the local business, it’s like a very community-oriented, like very awesome thing.  So Do It Best win for sure.

                                    But they had a band there, and the band – It’s like a three-piece band, and they were playing – Like before I went on to the opening keynote, they were playing music and like some CCR and different – Like some Jim Croce and different, different types of songs. 

                                    But all the three band members are all from the Do It Best IT department.  And so we got to talking about this, and I said, “You know, we’re wanting to do – Or we are doing at BriForum this year, this like morning show.”  I think – I don’t know if we talked about this on our radio show before, but we’re doing for BriForum, the introduction of BriForum, instead of a keynote we’re gonna do like a talk show, like a Conan –

Jack Madden:              Late night talk show formats, except at 8:30 in the morning.

Brian Madden:            Yeah.  And we really need a band.  And I don’t know that we really have budget for a band, and so we were kinda kicking around ideas and figuring out what we can do.  But I talked to these guys.  I was like, “Guys, so if you guys want to come to BriForum and be the band” – Because these are people who are IT who would want to attend BriForum anyway.  I said, “How about I’ll give you guys three – The three band members, we’ll give you a free pass to BriForum admission if you guys be our band on the morning show?” 

                                    And they were all like, “Hell yeah, let’s make it happen.”  And for them it’s exciting because, like, you can drive from Fort Wayne to Chicago, so they can like literally pack up all their gear in the van and like the three IT nerds, like – Which I use that lovingly.  Like I’m an IT nerd myself.  Like drive the van –

Jack Madden:              Road trip to Chicago for your gig.

Brian Madden:            And the IT conference.  And then they’re like, they’re attending the rest of the week.  So that’s really cool.

                                    So I have no way of knowing whether or not I have the actual authority to offer free tickets to BriForum, but I decided on the spot, and it’s already on the record, so I guess it happened.  So yeah.  So we now have a band, is my point, for our morning show.

                                    And they played three songs to introduce me, so I know that they know at least three songs, and the three songs were good, so they can play those same three songs.  That’s fine.


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