Testking, TestkingWorld, Pass4Sure, and other Braindumps, in the Certification forum on BrianMadden.com

It seems that not too many people here understand the severity associated with using braindumps; so I'm going to explain why the companies listed in my subject line (along with nearly 1000 other braindump sites) are illegal and will cause you to lose your certifications.

If you're not familiar with CertGuard, get familiar with it. Google it, Yahoo it, do whatever you have to, but know what you're in for when you choose to cheat; or better yet, when you choose not to take 10 minutes to do a little reasearch that will save your certifications.

Before I go any further, I know there are members here that are direct affiliates of those sites and I want them to know that CertGuard is working with Certification Vendors to have all of your braindump sites shutdown. If we can't get them shut down permanently, we will at least have the attention of the vast majority of your target audience, which will reduce your sales and ultimately FORCE you to shut them down on your own.

Now, for those of you not affiliated with the illegal sites, do yourself a favor and avoid them. It's no secret that Certification Vendors have begun "decertifying" everyone that they find cheating. Many of the vendors aren't even asking questions...if you cheat, you lose your certification automatically...and they now have ways of proving that you've cheated. So stop now before you do get caught.

Why are braindumps illegal?

1. They are STOLEN questions and answers from the ACTUAL EXAMS. Stealing is illegal, accepting stolen property is illegal.

2. They violate the Non-Disclosure/Candidate Agreement that you sign before taking the exam. Violation of this agreement is grounds for decertification.

What kind of excuses will allow me to use braindumps?

NONE! Not a single one. There is no excuse for using dumps. The certification vendors don't care if you have "real world experience", or if you "know how to research, but aren't good at taking tests". You know what they care about? They care about the VALUE of their certification program and how cheaters that use braindumps ruin the program for all the honest, hard-working, professionals that have what it takes to EARN the certifications without resorting to information that was stolen from the actual exams.

Well, how do I know what sites are ok to use?

You have to learn how to research! If you're going to survive in the IT Industry, this is one of the many undocumented requirements of every professional. Over 12 months ago CertGuard created a Braindump Identification System that instantly gives you information on over 2,600 certification related websites. Use it for every certification site you visit. If the box in the middle is a "redish" color, avoid he site. It's THAT simple!


How is BrianMadden.com classified?

Currently, because of all the references to braindump websites and unmoderated forums, CertGuard has classified BrianMadden.com as having "Dirty Forums". Basically, this means that the majority of the site looks good enough to pass our initial tests, but until the braindump references are deleted or removed from public view, this site will not be considered "Safe". We hope to change that soon.

See for yourself: http://www.certguard.com/search.asp?Site=brianmadden.com

Hello Robert,

For Starters. - Nice plug for your business.

I have a couple of questions which hopefully you may be able to shed some light on.

Can you advise us all how vendors are decertifying users that they find cheating? If i am not mistaken wouldn't you need to be caught in the act cheating on the exam to be classified as a cheater?
If not, how do the vendors obtain the information to prove that you purchased or used a braindump etc? I would suspect that that would be a breach of privacy and in turn the vendors or in this case your company would be liable for any legal preceedings brought upon from a "decertified" person.

For arguments sake lets say the vendors were able to obtain the information that you came in to possesion of a braindump etc, how can they then prove that you used it to gain an edge and pass the exam? Wouldn't it need to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that a user cheated?

Questions would need to be asked before a vendor decertifies someone as the user has spend a considerable amount of money and time paying for the exam and then spending the actual time sitting the exam. To decertify some one with no questions asked would raise some concerns and legal action.
In essence, what you are trying to achieve is very noble, but according to your website, you have put your certification on hold to crusade against people cheating on thier certification. In my opinion you should really concentrate on getting your certification first before you continue on your crusade and tag certain people as cheaters. You never know, you may not be good at taking exams, and may need the assistance of a braindump etc?

On another note: What vendors are really concerned with is how much money they can make for certification. They do not care about the VALUE of the certification. These companies are multi billion dollar companies that answer to share holders and if certification is a way to keep the share price on the up and up, then they will do what they need to do to keep the money flowing in. It is that simple. Each department needs to ensure that they are sustainable and if there is no money coming in then they will be shut down or sold off.

If these companies were really concerned about people cheating they would have changed from the multiple choice questions to something a little more difficult like what CISCO or Citrix used to do in the old days and make you sit a practical lab. That way there is no way you could cheat and you would then be proving that you are able to use a particular product.
On the downside what that would do is reduce the number of people actually going through and obtaining thier certification, which in turn reduces the total amount of income generted for that department, which leads to reduced profits, lower share price and ultimatley a number of people being sacked. (A bit of a dramatization, but I am just painting a picture)

Hi Mr. T,

For starters, plugging my business was not the goal of my post. If I was going to just "plug" my business, I wouldn't have spent an hour writing a post, I would have C&P'd some piece of crap two liner like the braindump spammers do in here and every other venue on the internet.

Being caught "red handed" is only one way that candidates can be decertified and probably comprises only a minute portion of the people that do get decertified. Have you ever heard of forensics? Maybe you've seen some of the many forensic TV shows or heard about how killers are caught from the use of forensic science?! Are you aware that the forensics done on a single bullet can tell the scientist which gun the bullet came from? Do you know that the results of the forensics can be proven to be accurate within something like 0.00000001%, meaning that there is a 99.99999999% that the gun and the bullet match.

Well, it's basically the same with catching a cheater now. Certification Vendors are employing the services of forensic scientists that specialize in education and test taking. Scientists have studied test takers, cheater, and patterns; all of which is being used to prove with 99.99999999% accuracy that a person has cheated on the exam. With that said, there is no breach of privacy. Nor is there anything illegal about the methods used by the vendors.

Not that you need to know this, but I have absolutely no reason to EARN any certifications. No matter what the situation, if I can't pass the exam with my own knowledge, then cheating is not going to get me what I need. I have taken 1000's of tests in my time and I know without a shawdow of a doubt that I have no problems taking exams, so my education is of no concern here. I'm getting the feeling that you are very familiar with braindumps and that you're one of the people that justifies their use. You'll like my Poll for the month of June. So, how many exams have you cheated for?

Funny you bring up the "money issue", so many people believe that the certification programs are the "livelyhood" of those companies, but you have no idea. Did you know that Cisco's annual revenue from hardware alone is like 100000X times more than the revenue they bring in from their certifications? I'm not sure about Citrix, but I would imagine it is just about the same, because Citrix's sales are primarily software. Microsoft, the same...actually software and hardware. If any one of these companies was to just shutdown their certification programs they wouldn't even feel it; and the certifications have little to no bearing on the value of the company shares. They do it because they know there are people out there that depend on their technologies and there need to be (truly) certified people out there to take care of those technologies.

Great post Robert! I think you're right on the money. Hopefully the industry gets cleaned up in part by the cheat-detection that they are implementing. Also, I'm looking forward to these forums getting cleaned up. That's a big reason I don't come around often anymore. You're doing the certification industry a great favor, keep up the good work.

Regards,
Jeff

Hi Robert,

Thanks for the insight on forensic investigation.

I do understand where you are coming from and agree with you in principle on what you are trying to achieve.

What always gets me frustrated is that people in this case yourself come on these forums and preach to the world on how others should conduct themselves as in this case with certification, try to force thier own belifs upon other people, without taking in to consideration that other people may have thier own beliefs.

People in this country have a choice, if they choose to use braindumps etc to prepare for an exam then it is their choice. If they choose not to use a braindump to prepare for an exam then again it is thier own choice.

Being in the industry that we are in, it would be very safe to assume that people know the underlying risks of using braindumps etc. If they don't then they really should not be in the industry at all. The decertification for people getting caught cheating has been around from when i started in the IT Industry back in the early 90's. People know the risks and they make thier own choices on how they conduct themselves.

You are entitled to your own opinion which is a good thing, but what I took from your original post was not just your opinion. For me it was more about you telling everyone on how they should conduct themselves and how your way is the right way for people to conduct themselves. This is my only gripe with you.

On another note, your comment on my familiarity of briandumps is unfounded and incorrect. In fact I have actually purchased some of Jeff's material to prepare for an exam. but have found that experience helps out more with exams than reading a book or memorizing some questions.

While we are on another note, look further in to a company and you will see that the education/certification department for these companies have to answer to somebody and are expected to generate a certain amount of revenue per year. As a whole company the education/certification department may only count for a very minute percentage of the total revenue, but if they did not bring in revenue the department would ultimatley be restructured or shutdown if they continue to run at a loss. So from the big picture perspective it may not look like much, but when you go in a bit more and look closley it is always about the money.

Well, let me start off by apologizing for being presumptuous. From your original tone I got the feeling you were defending the use of braindumps. My apologies.

Is it my belief that everyone should do the right thing when studying for an exam? Yes.
Is it my belief that everyone should have morals? Yes.
Is it my belief that everyone should instinctly know what is right and what is wrong? Yes.
Is it my belief that everyone know the difference between a braindump and legitimate study materials? Yes, but the fact is that not everyone does.
Is it my belief that cheating is devaluing your certifications? No. That's a fact.
Is it my belief that cheaters are being be decertified? No. Again, that's a fact.
I could go on and on here, but I presume you get the point.

I've been providing information on braindumps, gunmen, & cheaters for almost 3 years now; and not a day goes by that I don't see someone asking about testking, or pass4sure, or some other braindump that is devaluing your certifications. So, no, it really wouldn't be "safe to assume".

Decertification may have been around in the 90's for those that were physically caught red-handed with cheating materials on them, but those numbers were extremely small. You're talking probably 1 in 100,000 people were physically caught cheating. Decertification in the sense I'm referring to has just recently begun to make it's mark in the industry and was only recently put in place within the last 24-36 months. It is a program that many, but not all, of the certification vendors have implemented up to this point. With the use of forensics, many more vendors are incorporating this program into their daily routines and soon everyone that cheats will be decertified, no questions asked.

You are correct that everyone has a choice. That's what makes "the free world" free. But choices don't always come without consequences. If you choose to kill someone, would you not have to face some sort of consequences at some point? What if you choose to scam somebody out of their money, or choose to speed down the highway at 110mph? Sure they're all choices we make, but they are choices that violate some sort of law, rule, or regulation; as does copyright infringement, theft of intellectual property, and cheating. If someone chooses to cheat, then shouldn't that someone choose to accept the consequences?

What I'm trying to do is help the people that don't know the choices they are making are not only illegal, but are harming others in the process. It is my belief that in doing so, I am not only helping the IT Industry be a better place for everyone, but the value of certifications will be at the level they were intended and employers in all industries will give them the level of respect that is deserved.

Hi Robert,

Almost two years ago, I posted to this forum about the illegality of brain dump sites and was flamed so badly I decided to stop coming here. I have only recently returned as I want to share information about the new Xen product lines.

Unfortunately, nothing seems to have changed. I still see this forum replete with people asking for answers to test questions, brain dump site info, etc. It was refreshing to see your post.

What got me was the attitude that since I require people to look and act professionally that I was some kind of dinosaur from the '50s who "did not respect other people's opinions or right to attain certification by any means". I have always stated that test prep sites are illegal and if you use them to attain certification then you are a cheater - plain and simple.

Certifications are not a right. They have to be earned.

Dear Certificated Guys

I guess the human race is more and more going to wrong direction.

Do you ask me why? The Reason is there smart people and the are stupid people.

I am one of the stupid guys:
I spent a lot of time for Exam Preparation: reading Books, Practising in the Company, at home, joining to Trainings. Spending a lot of time and money for Preparation the Exams for Certification. After 6-8 Months I was MCSE. I was proud. But not anymore.

The are other guys. They spent 1 weeks in Dubai, or India or what ever. After 1 week Brain dumps mirroring they are also MCSE without Practise and without experience. Specialy they help them to cheat during the Exam in a Vue, Prometric Center. Who cares. Nobody.

Ask them how to setup a Public key infrastructure. They don’t know. Ask me I have learned and practise that stuff.

I suggest to Companies to have look, how much time the Candidates spent to earning the Certification Status. Example have look to the Transcript.
Nobody can make a Certification in this short time.
They people they spent money for Brain dumps or 1 week Training Camps (to memorise Brain dumps) they say the most time they don’t have time to learn, or time for perpetration.

But they have time to cheat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is much easier to cheat, to steel, to be liar. Who cares. Nobody. It easier to be disingenuous

That was my last Certification, I don’t want to spent money, time and anything else for Certifications. Nobody is asking. How did you make the Certification?


They Companies like Citrix, Microsoft, They have to do something against them. My opinion is they do not enough or nothing. I guess they support them too. Example: I was looking for an exam Preparation. When you type this into the Google search engine. There are more Brain dumps Site then the original website.

I guess in 3-4 Years, when somebody asks you what is your education. Your answer im MCSE on 2003. The chef ah our truck Drivers have also the MCSE Certification. Nothing against the Truck Driver. But this is going in this direction. Everbody is mcse without Experience.

I Suggest Companies like Microsoft to allow Certifications in the Companies like Vue or Prometric. They could make the exams especially with Exam Rooms from Microsoft with a “human” Expert. I watch and ask direct questions. But that would never be happened. Practise Exams that is the Magic Word. After them I want see how many Cheater can pass the exam.

And the is for me and other legal certified guys a really good reason to stop certifying.

Sorry for my English but I hope the most of them can understand that. I’m really angry, sad and sick of them.

Best Regards

My friend Robert, you are so much in the wrong here!

First of all let me first clear my stance. I agree absolutly, completly, 100%, totaly with the CONCEPT that you present here, Robert. But do i belive as to what you have said about decertification is valid? absolutly not.

Mr T has already pointed out valid reasons as to why that is entirely NOT possible so I wont re-write them. But I will add some more points to it:

To be decertified, you need to cheat and get caught. If you dont get caught while giving the exam, then you wont ever be decertified. The whole argument about forensics, well my friend I am giving a certification, not about to kill some one (and even on that note, your arguments are based on TV shows, half of that is absolute utter rubbish. CSI probably filled your brain with such nonsence). So forensics has nothing to do with this.

If i purchase brain dumps, it is my problem weather i will perform on the job or not. In the case of networking, it is a little harder but if the cert gets you to an entry level job, you will LEARN on the job, as most of the times you always do. Same goes for programming. So only a few minor exceptions to the braindump users acctualyl get fired for not know, the rest go along fine.

The only thing that cert guard or whtever can do is shut down website that offer these braindump services, well guess what, there are still illegal movies for download, a few may have been shut down but a dozon more opened up. Same for cert, you cant ever stop it. It just CANT be done.

What cert guard, and people like your self do is that they intimidate people. You and I both know decertification as the way YOU have said does NOT happen, so you try to intimidate by the mambo-jambo of decertification, that someone microsoft just magically knows that I cheated by using a brain dump, well boohoo i can retaliate by simply saying I had a dream about the exam - so beat that!). Now the intimedation works well, people get scared easily, and I would say the white man definatly easily backs of. But are your words going to effect anyone in asia? No!

Thirdly, as Mr T so rightly pointed out, its about money. Its always about money. Certs were only designed for one purpose only: to make money out of. The system works because dilluted managers (who think like you) belive certs prove a person's ability. In actualy fact they dont. Just take MS dot net framework exam for example. The entire 70-536 exam is based about knowing classes and their methods, and by knowing i mean really, cramming to the brain. In the real world senario, if their is something i dont know, i will simply open up MSDN, which is why it is there for in the first place. The point of the exam then? you see where I am comming from here.

So as i was saying about the money, big companies know that certs will generate some portion of revenue to them, so they go along with it, more braindumps means more people giving the exam.

Obviously I cant convince you and you cant convince me. But if you really open your eyes, you would know that what you are saying is something like 1 person out of 10,000. And those 10,000 opnions are what I just told you.

Excellent points Zee.

Not only that many in the IT field have limited jobs and do not setup entire WAN systems and routers...ETC. However, must maintain Certifications as a job requirement.
Some companies seed there IT Employees to BootCamps that is just a legal 6 Day braindump put on by some vendors and training organizations.
However, they gurantee you to be Certified once you leave the 5 to 6 day course.

and Yes my friend they may big money off the people you get certified. Remember, each one who is certified becomes a "CISCO, Microsoft, Novell, ..ETC" salesman for the company they are certified with.

and that means big bucks for purchases for Routers, Switches, Backup systems Server OS and it continues once those people build the infrastructure at the place they work.
Have you ever had to rebuild or remove a system that is well established in a company.
I don't care how you get your Cert. I don't even care if you are certified.
However, some company's require cert by its IT staff, and are willing to send them to brain dump bootcamps.



That is why it will not be shutdown, you going to get the Bootcamps next say they are cheating.
You know the bootcamps only teach the test. You think you can be a MCSE in 5 days and know what you are doing in a LAN or WAN situation.

So good luck with your crusade. I am not sure how much money CertGuard brings in on this crusade.

I sure you do just fine.

Thanks for the kind words Andrew. I had an email conversation with the owner of these forums in which he stated he's working on cleaning them up. Hopefully that will help the individuals looking to get certified find the right places to do so.

Markus, don't consider yourself one of the "stupid guys", consider yourself one of the smart guys. Learning like you have done will be much more valuable to the companies that are looking for someone to fix the technologies that the cheaters have messed up. Don't quit learning because of cheaters. Take it a step further and learn even more. The more you learn the more it will show when you are in the interview with the company.

The points you raised should all be brought up to your potential employers. When you go to the interview, take information with you that will prove your worth to them. Most employers want to know what you will be bringing to the table. One question all employers ask themselves is "How will hiring this person benefit us?". This is a question you need to answer in the interview process. If you think you're going to have a chance to answer that question any time after the interview, you've already lost the job.

As for the Certification Vendors working to stop cheating. I'll get more indepth on this topic in the following post (in regards to zeeshan), but know that they are working on it; along with other companies in the IT Industry.

zeeshan, what you wrote was very very funny. Thanks for the laugh! I needed that at the end of a long day. What I'm about to write may scare you...ok, maybe not, but it should.

Look, you apparently have alot to learn. If what you say is true, then you should write these psychometricians and let them know that they are out of a job. I'm sure they'd be real happy to hear that forensics are only being used to find killers. To think...they could have wasted 30 years doing this. If you're going to be in IT, you need to open your eyes to the technologies that are taking over our lives.

Data Forensics...it's not just for killers anymore.

Here are a few other interesting articles you may want to read while you're learning:
> Microsoft cracks down on certification exam cheating (Note the sub title "Lifetime bans, sophisticated analysis tools highlight anti-piracy efforts")

> Cisco tackles certification exam cheating

> Better yet, watch the webcast Microsoft put out last week which details their campaign against cheaters: https://www.livemeeting.com/cc/lmevents/view?id=msft062508PMlm&pw=ATT11808


You are partially correct, in that in order to be decertified you must be caught cheating, but what you aren't understanding is that the methods used to catch cheaters has evolved; and they are evolving much faster than the cheating techniques are. If you want to learn the hard way, go for it, just don't say you weren't warned.

Again, you are partially correct. If you purchase braindumps and can't perform on the job, that's all on your shoulders. But what about the loss employers take by hiring someone that doesn't know what they are doing, paying that person's salary, and paying someone else to come in and fix their mistakes? What about the other certified professonals like Markus(above) that work their butts off to make sure that they CAN perform on the job so that employers and fellow IT professionals aren't disappointed in the Certification Industry? Also, why should employers be forced to pay the wages of inept individuals who are merely "trying to get a foot in the door" or want to learn on the job?

Here is where you're wrong. We are not trying to intimidate anyone. Our goal is to try to find the individuals that don't know what braindumps are and teach them about the dangers. We just let the system handle people like you. We do understand, however, that people are going to cheat no matter what; those are the people that will learn the hard way. But there are way too many people out here that, given the opportunity, would not cheat to get their certifications. Those are the people with solid morals and ethics that get duped into cheating by the people they are befriended by. Why should their certifications be put at risk?

Ok!

Lets put a few things on the table for open discussion. The first step is to prove Mr.xyz cheated. If there really are people out their hunting down cheaters, one way is you try to find the link between Mr. xyz and any braindump forums he visited. If you know his details you can well track his steps and lead to the conclusion that he used brain dumps. Or use the CC he used to pay for the exam to cross check with braindump databases.

There are no other magical ways on finding out. Pretty much what you are doing above is spying and in some places Mr. xyz can sue the vendor's as$ for data protection and privacy etc.

Point B is. MS employees use braindumps and I know that for the fact so you cant argue with me on this. Bootcamps and all the places that claim to be MCSE, CCNA in 5 days are all out in the open. Let me burst your bubble by telling you that they teach by brain dumps. They dont shut down. Why? Because big vendors will have a huge revenue shortage if they take measures to stop them. How many times must I repeat my self. Certs were designed for one purpose only: to make money. Do you really think MS gives a rat's as$ about Mr. xyz cheating on their exams?

And when you talk about MS decertyfing someone, well natrualy they cant OPENLY claim they support brain dumps. To go along with everything they decertify some one now and then but rarely. And someone stated that there are huge bodies and teams specifically for making tests. Well my friend I belive they dont exist and if they do, well they must be the most laziest people on this planet. Most MS exams have not change for more then 3 years. Can you justify that? If you can then you are one boxed up person, my friend.

Vendors makes the exam, it goes through testing, and once it is ready it is up. It changes only when the vendor feels like it. Certguard nearly screwed one guy who gave the CCIE exam. Go and read the story on him how certguard assumed he cheated.

That was all on the certs. I will reply back on your forensics as well but I wont hope for anything as clearly you have dreams about CSI too.

[quote=zeeshan]Ok!
Lets put a few things on the table for open discussion. The first step is to prove Mr.xyz cheated. If there really are people out their hunting down cheaters, one way is you try to find the link between Mr. xyz and any braindump forums he visited. If you know his details you can well track his steps and lead to the conclusion that he used brain dumps. Or use the CC he used to pay for the exam to cross check with braindump databases.

There are no other magical ways on finding out. Pretty much what you are doing above is spying and in some places Mr. xyz can sue the vendor's as$ for data protection and privacy etc.
[/quote]

You didn't read ANY of the information in my previous post did you? Data Forensics CAN prove that, it HAS proven that, and it will continue to prove that, someone has cheated. You can't argue with science! It's......maaagical!


[quote=zeeshan]
Point B is. MS employees use braindumps and I know that for the fact so you cant argue with me on this. Bootcamps and all the places that claim to be MCSE, CCNA in 5 days are all out in the open. Let me burst your bubble by telling you that they teach by brain dumps. They dont shut down. Why? Because big vendors will have a huge revenue shortage if they take measures to stop them. How many times must I repeat my self. Certs were designed for one purpose only: to make money. Do you really think MS gives a rat's as$ about Mr. xyz cheating on their exams?
[/quote]

Did I ever try to disprove or argue with this? I know they do too...I've seem them even post asking for braindumps in their own usenet groups...from the internal micrsoft servers. But tha doesn't mean it's right. It means that those individuals didn't know. But I guarantee you that once I reported their postings to the MS Exam Fraud/Legal team, they knew that braindumps were illegal.


[quote=zeeshan]
And when you talk about MS decertyfing someone, well natrualy they cant OPENLY claim they support brain dumps. To go along with everything they decertify some one now and then but rarely. And someone stated that there are huge bodies and teams specifically for making tests. Well my friend I belive they dont exist and if they do, well they must be the most laziest people on this planet. Most MS exams have not change for more then 3 years. Can you justify that? If you can then you are one boxed up person, my friend.
[/quote]

If you look at the numbers I have for the last 6 months in 2007, you'll see that it was more than 'rare'.

Please, I know otherwise, but tell me how you have come to the conclusion that MS exams have not changed in the past 3 years? Have you seen all the exams over the past 3 years? Do you have some sort of internal knowledge on the exams?


[quote=zeeshan]
Vendors makes the exam, it goes through testing, and once it is ready it is up. It changes only when the vendor feels like it. Certguard nearly screwed one guy who gave the CCIE exam. Go and read the story on him how certguard assumed he cheated.
[/quote]

You need to learn alot more because your views are skewed to the point that you're actually believing what you're saying. You want me to read the story? I wrote the story, I know exactly what happened.

[quote=zeeshan]
That was all on the certs. I will reply back on your forensics as well but I wont hope for anything as clearly you have dreams about CSI too.
[/quote]

What is this CSI thing you keep mentioning? I could google it, but I'd prefer you explain it.