Testking, TestkingWorld, Pass4Sure, and other Braindumps, in the Certification forum on BrianMadden.com

SO just simply reading some waffle on data forensics you belive them word for word. Yes I have read throug the links you posted and they fail to prove on how they track down cheaters. What they have written is simple waffle and a load of bull.

On the MS link you posted I wont even bother replying because if you read the replies to that you will know what I mean.

On the certguard, well do you know how much that company got flamed, eventually certguard had to apologize for their misunderstandings. Because certguard basis its conclusion on assumption.

Certification has been around more then 10 years. Brain dumps came out as soon as the first cert became popular. And yet, NOW they try to stop them. Ethical and moral grounds dont change in a day. Its either this or that, if they considered them to be bad, they would have designed the papers accordingly. What you are is someone who belives in the media so blindly that if your media-authentic source claimed pigs are flying, you will belive them despite the millions you will proove with facts that it cant be possible.

I think you made it pretty clear that it is acctually YOU who thinks its all magical because you have dilluted you self in soo deep into your own selfcontained world of forensics that you fail to even comprehend plain simple common sense let alon facts and figures. Obviously I cant argue with that. However, you fail to come up with valid sensible points, and present your so-called scientific evidence on these methods of tracking down cheaters.

Ok obviously we are headed no where. So let me rephrase my question.

If so much money as you claim is used to make the question pool, i think i read somewhere around 150K per exam is spent. Well if so, where is the money really spent as clearly it is not spent on the question pool. Why does the the pool only contain like 100's and not thousands like cisco.

My sources are the internet and forums, and I place them here because i can say that nearly 90% agree with me that MS only has a couple of hundred questions per exam if not (100), cisco has around 1000.

So my question is! Why the insance data forensics and not just simply increase the question pool. If the question pool is like lets say even 2000, it would be hard for the person to get hold of, belive in the accuracy of the exam and difficult to learn all the questions. Infact it would be easier to acctually learn the material.

I mean really how hard it is to make an exam? If you have a dedicated team / department specifycially for exam questions, I would expect the exams to change the question pool every 3 months. Why is it not done. You cant say that it is because I know MS does NOT do that. (from people who give the exam, just read several forums and you will understand, otherwise if you belive MS in saying they do, well they are lieing because ppl who have been giving exams specificalyl MS ones for a long time know they DONT change!)

Thoughts on that?

lol....waffle? You do understand that these people have doctorates in their field, right?! I'm not sure what country you call home, but in most other countries, doctorates are only second to multiple doctorates (which BTW many of those scientists also have). As for believing them word for word... I believe what my mind can comprehend. If my mind cannot comprehend what is being said, I try to find other sources that may explain the same thoughts in a different manner, which I will be able to comprehend. Sometimes this takes 2 or three different sources, other times not. In this case, I was able to comprehend the information because I have not only read the information I presented to you here, I've also spoken to and listened to those doctors live and in person.

Let me see if I understand you here. You're asking ME if I know how much CertGuard got flamed? I'm about to die laughing right now. Do you SEE my signature? If you still don't understand who I am at this point, then it's pretty obvious you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to the events that took place around me.

Yes, certifications have been around more than ten years and Brain dumps, when they originated, were not illegal. They were thoughts that people simply put on paper. These thoughts did not steal actual exam questions or answers from the exams. Then, circa 1997, a company was created that decided to mass produce stolen questions and answers. Of course, because of human nature, people flocked to the illicit business because now that they have the answers to all the tests, well...they now know everything there is to know about IT and they can get a job. In the beginning this wasn't seen as a viable threat to the vendors because only a small handful of people were being disillusioned by their 'new found career'. Braindumps as you and I know them now have completely destroyed the value and reputation of those hard working and honest individuals who have their morals and ethics in the right place.

I'm not a scientist, so I cannot present scientific evidence to you (even if I wanted to). What I have presented you, you have failed to comprehend. I think our conversation is about over. I've provided you with the facts and you have failed to comprehend what is going on around you. As you claim I like to watch CSI, I'm making the claim that you're watching too many cartoons. It's time you grow out of your shell and open your mind to the real world.

Stay in School!!

ofcourse i know who you are. :)

I have read all about the ethan ccie bloging fiasco that took place and you really did pi$$ of alot of the cisco community members.

You think you are saving humanity on a brink of cert distruction. Well no one asked us to be saved and the vendors certainly did not ask you for help. Hence what you are doing is purely for your own self. (I dont see your company as a partner with any other company).

Ofcourse our conversation is over. You have, as you stated in your website, delayed your certification to start this nobel quest of essentially educating people about not using brain dumps. Although I admire your ambition and enthusiasm for this task, I do however question your methods.

Natrualy, since you have put in so much of your time, research and effort into this, you surely wont accept any one judging your methods and passing critisim. So we are in a situation where I fail to understand the facts you present and you fail to understand where I am comming from.

Inany case at the very least you got a bit of a laugh from my posts. lol :)

[quote=zeeshan]Ok obviously we are headed no where. So let me rephrase my question.
Agreed!

[quote=zeeshan]
If so much money as you claim is used to make the question pool, i think i read somewhere around 150K per exam is spent. Well if so, where is the money really spent as clearly it is not spent on the question pool. Why does the the pool only contain like 100's and not thousands like cisco.
[/quote]

I have no idea where their money is allotted. Anything you, or anyone else that isn't involved in Microsoft's accounting process, states is pure speculation and cannot be taken at anything more than face value.

[quote=zeeshan]
My sources are the internet and forums, and I place them here because i can say that nearly 90% agree with me that MS only has a couple of hundred questions per exam if not (100), cisco has around 1000.

So my question is! Why the insance data forensics and not just simply increase the question pool. If the question pool is like lets say even 2000, it would be hard for the person to get hold of, belive in the accuracy of the exam and difficult to learn all the questions. Infact it would be easier to acctually learn the material.
[/quote]

So you're saying that you believe what people on the internet say? You do understand that 90% of the people that voice their opinions on the internet are doing just that, right?! (me included). There's nothing wrong with voicing an opinion, or even believing someone else's opinion. But the facts should be taken at a higher value than someone's opinion. Sure I could sit here and tell you that Microsoft is decertifying people for cheating, but does it mean anything without proven facts (like those I have already presented)?

You are aware that all of Cisco's exams are dumped as well right?! So where would it benefit Microsoft to spend the money on an increased number of questions if Cisco has already proven that it hasn't worked? Wouldn't it be more beneficial to Microsoft and the 100+ other certification vendors, to figure out why that hasn't worked for Cisco, before they go and waste their money on something proven to not work?

As for the (total) number of questions in the exam pool. This is a number unknown to over 99% of even Microsoft Employees (from what I hear). So any numbers that you see on the internet have


[quote=zeeshan]
I mean really how hard it is to make an exam? If you have a dedicated team / department specifycially for exam questions, I would expect the exams to change the question pool every 3 months. Why is it not done. You cant say that it is because I know MS does NOT do that. (from people who give the exam, just read several forums and you will understand, otherwise if you belive MS in saying they do, well they are lieing because ppl who have been giving exams specificalyl MS ones for a long time know they DONT change!)

Thoughts on that?
[/quote]

Until you've taken the time to learn what is involved in the exam writing process, only you can answer that. I know from talking with numerous SMEs that writing Q&A sets to any given technology is extremely daunting. I can guarantee you this though, you're not going to get there by cheating or using braindumps.

Anyone can b!tch & moan about the tests, but it takes a real professional to dedicate his/her career to improving those tests. Before anyone can write a test, they first have to meet certain qualifications. Taking the test is NOT a qualification for being able to write the test. Since we're talking about Microsoft (in a Citrix forum, nonetheless) I'll stick with that, so let's take the MCT for instance. In order to become an MCT, the candidate must meet many qualifications set forth by Microsoft (yes, I'm aware they are fewer than those of becoming a CCIE). List of those qualifications.

Not every MCP is cut out to be a trainer. The best trainers combine an in-depth knowledge of the technology with an outgoing personality and the ability to communicate to both individuals and groups comfortably, three traits not often easily combined. Working as an MCT is a tasking job, to say the least, and the path to becoming certified as a trainer is neither easy nor inexpensive. To become a trainer an MCP must first Earn a qualifying Microsoft Credential. He/she must then Prove his/her presentation skills, most often by taking a non-Microsoft course entitled Train the Trainer. Unlike other certified professionals, the MCT must pay an Annual Fee and his/her status will be reviewed annually. MCTs who are not working as trainers, or whose performance has been rated below par, will find themselves stripped of their training credentials when the annual renewal review is conducted.

After the application process, MCTs are assigned to one or more competencies. These competencies are often what you're looking for when you choose to hire a trainer for their services. Once upon a time MCTs were permitted to teach any course corresponding to an exam that they had passed. Those days are gone, and now MCTs are permitted to teach courses corresponding to the certifications that they hold. In other words, an MCT who holds the MCDST certification cannot pass a single exam and teach Active Directory; an MCSE cannot teach .NET courses, and MCPDs cannot teach Desktop Support classes.

The life of an MCT is not an easy one. There is stiff competition for contracts, and often the only thing that separates candidates is their daily rate and so an MCT who is not willing to low-ball pricing finds himself at a disadvantage. Many MCTs choose to be 'Road Warriors', spending much of their time traveling to assignments, either independently or on behalf of agents. Many MCTs travel from city to city and even country to country so much that they wake up unsure of what city they are in. They do this because most often the groups in need of (and willing to pay for) their insight are seldom in their home town.

It wasn't the first time, and it won't be the last.

But yes, thanks for the laughs.

I do understand where you're coming from. I just don't believe that anyone should lower their morals, ethics, or standards to the point where they have to cheat to try to prove they are 'better' than someone else.

Just like steriods in sports (other than wrestling of course), if you can't prove you're better without them, then you're not going to be better with them. They just make you less of a person when everybody finds out you've been using them as a farce to your success.

Great reading and very interesting!

There's some more of this kind of stuff over here:
http://edge.networkworld.com/community/node/28444

I love the personal bio at the top right!

Robert,

I'm an IT pro with 5 years of experience, but no certs. A year ago, when I was unemployed, I realized that people with certificates, but with less skills, knowledge and experience than me, are getting the jobs. So I decided to go after certificates myself. I bought five self-study books, and even enrolled in two courses.

Six months ago I was advised, by some (certified) IT guys I acquainted on one Linux Conference, to use something called "testking" to prepare for exams. And when I googled for "testking", I finally realized how it is possible that guys with less skills, knowledge and experience than me have all those certs.

Now, as the day of my first exam (it will probably be Linux+) is nearing, I'm getting more and more depressed by the fact that use of testking and other braindumps is justified by so many (certified) IT pros I talked to during last months. At first I was very happy to found out that there is an organization like CertGuard, but then I was disappointed when I saw number of decertified cheaters. The number is so low that I can't believe that "Data Forensics" you are talking about is more than a bluff.

I hope that you and your organization will become more efficiant in the future. Otherwise my efforts to certify skills and knowledge I have will be useless.

Hi Bojan,

I understand your concerns, and let me say that those numbers you saw on our decertified page - although accurate for the time frame (and only for Microsoft)  - do not reflect the number of cheaters who have been decertified (throughout the industry) since then. And let me also point out that it is not CertGuard who is decertifying any candidates, it is the certifying agencies who investigates and decertifies those who have been found to use cheating materials. Those numbers were provided to us by Microsoft for a short time prior to them implementing additional Corporate Bylaws that prevented them from doing so.

I assure you that the forensics being used are still in place and the certifying agencies are still using them to crack down on cheaters. As for CertGuard's efforts to help prevent cheating and reduce the number of candidates who inadvertently get caught up in using braindumps; we are still working to get the work out to anyone willing to listen and we're constantly trying to find new ways of doing so. We would appreciate any help you can afford to provide just by registering in our forums and helping to get the word out to others you know.

Your experience with braindumps may seem unique to you but there are hundreds, maybe thousands, of other candidates who have had the same thing happen to them, but they didn't take the time to realize what a mess they're getting into by using braindumps.

Robert,

 

I have read many of your blog posts on Network World and on this site. The more I read them the more I get the feeling that you need to get a life. You quit school and the pursuit of certifications just to go after these bad people. I think that in reality somewhere along the line someone either got promoted before you or took your job that had a certification and you felt that he or she was not as qualified as you and this set you off on your quixotic quest to get rid of all the so called “cheaters” in the IT world.

 

I have many certifications and yes I have an MCSE (NT 4.0, 2000 and 2003). I also have 5 college degrees including a Masters in Computer Information Systems and an MBA. Which I got in probably the amount of time you have been wasting on this poor excuse for a company you are the CEO of.

 

As a matter of record I hold the following IT certifications that I have worked by tail off over the past 10 years to acquire.

 

Microsoft - MCSE NT 4.0, MCSE 2000, MCSE 2003, MCDBA SQL 2000

Novell – CNA, CNE 5, CNE 6

Lotus (IBM) - Lotus CLP 5

Cisco –CCNA, CCNP, CCSP

CheckPoint – CCSA, CCSE

Citrix – CCA, CCEA

COMP TIA – Security +

ISC2 – CISSP

PMI – PMP (Project Management Professional)

VMWare – VCP

EC Council – CEH, ECSA, LPT

Mile 2 – CPTS

ISACA – CISA

RED HAT – RHCE

 

I hold a BA in Psychology, a BS in Finance and a BS in Business Administration as well as the Masters in Computer Information Systems and MBA.  

 

I think my accomplishments speak to the fact that I am a hard worker (I am the director of information technology where I work not some admin) and have studied hard and worked hard to get where I am today. I have found over the years that those who cheat on their exams; the so called paper certified people of the world, don’t make it past the first interview with most of my friends that are in the IT placement business. And when I interview people I can tell right away whether they know their IT information or not.

 

Your witch hunt after these ill gotten certified people and the brain dumps they use is a waste of time and energy. Employers know who these people are and anyone who sits and whines that he doesn’t want to put in all the work to take a certification exam because they are now devalued by cheaters is just making excuses for not wanting to sit an exam. Maybe this is why you are not certified you didn’t have the cahones to sit for the exams just like you couldn’t finish school (3 years come on).

 

I have read way too much of your tripe and almost everyone that I know in the Cisco community or the other IT communities that has been subjected to your blather feels the same way I do. Real professionals are not afraid of brain dumps and exam cheaters. The real issue for most of us is the illegal use of the H1B visa to replace qualified Americans with cheap foreign labor. Why don’t you look into railing against that? It is much more of a real rather than a supposed threat like brain dumps.

 

Once again get a life.

What you refer to as forensics is very much a stretch of the term. The practices these organizations are employing are basic psychological pattern analysis that has been in existence for quite some time. I have a degree in psychology and as an undergraduate helped design tests to measure intent by the pattern of a subjects answers on a set of questions. Even using high level regression analysis this is almost impossible to prove out.

 

Basically if someone takes a long time on a question that is complex and they answer it correctly they most likely know the material and are taking their time to make sure all their Ts are crossed and Is are dotted. However is someone then hits a patch of items that they “may have seen before” they should be able to answer them by sight only and thus be able to fire off a series of 5 or 6 questions in a row in less than a minute.

 

This is great in theory, however I know from my own experience that sometimes you just go through a patch of questions that you know the answers to. You answer them quickly in order to save time for the questions that you may have difficulty with. This is more time management than a case of pattern analysis because someone cheated.

 

Basically I don’t care how much these people want you to believe that their “forensics” can catch cheaters by the pattern they use to answer questions it is just not possible to prove this and could lead to some class action suits by those who would be decertified on such flimsy evidence.

 

Last thing, your bio is terrible you look very foolish trying to look tough in the picture; you might want to change it. Maybe put on a suit or something and look a little more professional.

 

Also another thing a member of Network World brought up a very good question. Unless you are getting a hold of the actual exam questions themselves how are you able to determine if the sites in question are giving actual exam questions or not?  The member also brings into question your character at going after the CCIE in your blog post on NW (which has been pulled due to its offensive nature). Here is the quote regarding your lack of ethics and your lack of remorse in almost ruining a man’s reputation without evidence

 

“Agreed, if that's an apology, wow! Robert damages the guy’s reputation, and calls him a cheater to the whole world, and that's all he can say?

Robert Williams needs to be removed from this site. He is an amateur at best, and a libelous fraud at worst.

Fraud? Oh yes, he never answered a direct question: "how is CertGuard able to compare the so-called illegal materials with the actual tests without also violating NDA at the same time"?

Either he doesn't do this comparison, and he's lying, or he is a hypocrite to violate NDA in the same manner he accuses others of.

Remove him now, NW. He will do this again.”

 

So Robert, can you answer these questions?