VMWare acquisition validates Citrix focus

I have to admit up front that I have a bias to my comments below.  I have recently been acquired myself as an engineer for RES.  For those who know of our products, we deliver solutions focused on User Workspace Management with our products Powerfuse and Wisdom. 

While the underlying delivery platform has become a utility within the enterprise today (application delivery is there with the same frequency and resiliency as the electricity available from the wall socket), often times it is the case that these utility providers fail to deliver what is required for end users to access these applications without error and properly configured to the customers needs.

As engineers we script the registry keys needed for the application, we configure the files necessary for the apps, we pre-stage the printers, we map the drives (scripted or by hand), we coordinate thousands of lines of policy settings which render logon/logoff performance a non-starter, we turn mandatory profiles into hybrid profiles, and suffer roaming profiles as we are given no alternative out of the box (SA, EA, it makes no difference...default roaming profiles cannot be relied over time to sustain the user environment).  Interesting now that W2K8 and Vista profile environments are not compatible with profiles generated from W2K3 and XP.  Ah, for the days of delivering a W2K3 SP2 mandatory profile, and releasing it to the network without worry, the future is now, and those days are over.  Dual-Mode Streaming, there's an interesting approach to user profile settings management.

As engineers we cobble together every item required by the user.  We work across multiple MMCs (which are themselves reliant on the underlying OS as to presentation and function), management consoles for Citrix, VMWare, Xen.  When does the script run (there are four launching points for scripts within the standard MS environment)?  From which management console will I control the script, AD user property, GPMC, or perhaps a registry key (appsetup anyone)? 

When will User Workspace Management make its way into the Hypervisored reality we are scrambling around in these days?  Rhetorically, no time soon for many, and right now today for those who see it and know that is there.

The next big phrase to define in our market is User Workspace Management.  The next time you are called into the CFOs office, take a look around at the faces you see, the folks with 10 years and more of tenure within the organization.  Think of all the changes in the network they have endured.  List out the steps that are necessary for a person in that office to receive the settings required to work productively, how many tools and system processes, how many management consoles, how many CRs issued and approved (again and again for what is already pre-approved change within the network, which by the way is still a manual process of change for IT, map a network drive anyone?).

The applications are going to get there, and they going to get there more cheaply today and tomorrow.  We are still not seriously referencing what is for our customer the last and only mile that matters....

User Workspace Management....

Thanks.

Rick Eilenberger

How is Citrix in 4th place?  Not in technology and certainly not in company revenue.  If you take this from an investor's standpoint, why would Citrix buy a company that does something they already do, unless it would mean significantly more revenue?  Strong competitors in the market breeds better solutions and understaning by the customer.  I 100% agree with Jay that this move has validated this space.

Guest above is right.   Citrix does not do the samething that Softgrid, thinstall and installfree does.  Citrix tried to build their own solution and failed miserably.

Yes,  I said 4th place.  Compare apples to apples.  Softgrid is much better that Tarpon.  Thinstall is much better than Tarpon.  InstallFree is much better that Tarpon.  So that's three technologies that are better that Citrix's Tarpon (streaming) technology. If I do the math,  that's atleast 4th place.  As far a revenues.  I'd like to see the number for companies purchasing Streaming Client licenses (NOT CPS ENTERPRISE license).  If you count CPS license, then YES citrix would be in LAST place because the product is FREE with CPS so direct revenue is generated.  I would venture to guess that Softgrid and Thinstall have generate more revenues because of their respective product than Citrix has.  Companies are buy CPS 4.5 for PS not Streaming.  If anything, they are adding Softgrid or thinstall on top because the Citrix solution is not usable.

And no, VMWare did not validate this space.  Microsoft already did when they purchased Softricity.

VMware should be able to sell many more licenses of Thinstall for the same reason that Microsoft has been able to sell x10 number of licenses of SoftGrid than Softricity has in its entire existence. So I can definitely see the value there. I also see the value in terms of completing the picture - VMware being able to address more aspects of virtualization.

What I don't see is a coherent whole. VMware appears to have a set of interesting technologies whose only common denominator is the word virtualization. Currently there is no actual linkage between ACE, VDM and now Thinstall. I believe it will take VMware a long time to change that.

At the same time, I still don't understand the relationship between Citrix and Microsoft regarding their competing hypervisors and management suites.

My opinion is that the customers like two things that do not really match together. First they want to have an all in one solution from one vendor, which should cover all their needsn and on the other side they don't want to be addicted to a single company. Citrix is focusing it's product strategy right in this way for years now. Everyone opened big eyes as they began to aquire network companies and selling their fist access GW product. Application virtualization followed.. etc. etc.

And the winner is.... The vendor, which is able to provide a complete application delivery solution while not having 25 products and a bunch of independent management consoles.

It will only be validated when profit is made well above and beyond the acquisition purchase and ramp up costs!

> The vendor, which is able to provide a complete application delivery solution while not having 25 products and a bunch of independent management consoles

Neither Citrix nor VMware are anywhere close to being there, and Microsoft (currently) isn't even in the game. Also, there is a lot to say for "best of breed". For example, Citrix application virtualization is integrated, but according to other posters here it is sub-par (I've never used it).

I'm skeptic....I, and my customers, have allways used for plain Citrix PS with WI and Secure Gateway. That's it.
The other crap Cirix have been trying to do have always failed miserably - Nfuse Elite/MSAM, VideoFrame, Password Manager, Tarpon, et.al. And that Enterprise/Platinum versions of plain Citrix are equally bloat and crap. Today I was over at a customer site that were using Citrix 4 Advanced Edition on W2K platform (long time since I saw anyone on the A edition), anyway. We builded a new farm on W2K3 and PS 4.5 and the only thing I missed from the E edition was the scheduled reboot.

Other *** are in totally other markets, such as wan scaler/net scaler and all that Xen crap. I think those products would've a better future without Citrix. Peronally I hate the Access Gateway *** as well.

Good discussion here about the relative strengths and weaknesses of Thinstall, Softgrid, etc. But when I said VMWare "validates the space" I wasn't talking about those specific technologies, products or features. And I certainly wasn't suggesting that Citrix's client-side virtualization features are better than everyone else's right now.

What I was trying to say is that VMWare, through its acquistions of Propero and Thinstall, has illustrated a clear intent to organize an app delivery strategy that closely resembles the Citrix company strategy: provide an end-to-end infrastructure that connects users to applications. Client-side Windows component virtualization of the Thinstall variety is just one of many arrows in the quiver when it comes to app delivery.

To continue invading the application delivery market, VMWare would probably want to acquire F5, so they can match our story around optimizing the delivery of web applications, and then perhaps Riverbed to optimize the delivery of applications across wide area networks. If either of these things happen, it would set up an outstanding two-horse race in the Application Delivery market.  

Respectfully,

Jay

Is anyone impressed or happy with "Password Manager", "Advanced Access Control", or Tarpon?

I am happy with Presentation Server but I am not impressed with this other stuff.

As a Citrix Partner, I do not want to abuse my customers with hype. Selling them things they don't need is not looking out for their best interest. Citrix needs to be sinsitive to the customer's perspective.

There are a lot of people pretty upset with the Citrix attitude. Citrix better start paying attention.

The Bundling is a way to force feed sales and is a Citrix customer manipulation. These products should function on their own and be sold on their own merits.  So what if other companies do it. It still does not make greed right.

Some customers must be happy with Password Manager.  Gartner now has Password Manager in the upper right hand quadrant and put it there because more and more customers are using it, plus, are happy with it (according to them).  I don't think Gartner would risk their reputation and make something up.  Companies pay big money for their opinion.

If you don't want to see Platinum, don't sell Platinum.  Sell Enterprise or Advanced.  If the customer then wants Password Manager as an add-on, sell it to them as an add-on.  YES, you can do that!

Platinum is a bundle and the customer gets a savings for buying everything together.  But, you don't have to sell it that way!

True, Citrix does not advertise that enough. . .I will give you that.

WOW! These comments all sounds familiar! Where have I heard this before? Hmmmmm....... Oh yeah!!! "Netware is Lightyears Better than NT!" No one will ever unseat Novell! Blah Blah Blah!

 Begin<soapbox>

I love coming on this site because Brian does connect to some interesting content. But I am hoping one day that I will find the winning Lotto numbers with all of the prognosticators in the comments area. I have no problem with people stating their opions but too many act like they know how it will all shake out. Customers will buy what they feel they need, and from who they trust and feel comfortable with. People love to hate Citrix like Microsoft but without Citrix and Microsoft quite a few people on these boards, and who read these boards wouldn't be employed at their current or a past job. Where did Jay say one technology was better than another?

A lot of people believe that Apple technology is far superior than Microsoft technology. Guess what, in my company we aren't doing a wholesale change to Macs for everyone! Better is based on preference and need, is a corvette a better vehicle than a mini-van if you need to carry 6 children around all day? Is SoftGrid better at application virtualization if all the devices you are streaming to are x64 today? Most people think their world is the norm and their xyz is the best. Is it for everyone? 

 End</soapbox>

VMware is moving into the application space, but all they currently have is virtualization, i.e. no delivery or presentation remoting.

Citrix has moved into the virtualization space but their solutions lag substantially behind VMware both in capability and market share.

In other words, they may be converging in terms of offerings, but they still have a long way to go before they actually pose a significant threat to each other.

To True, there has never been a "one size fits all" as two businesses are never the same, if there were, I certainly would be out of a job! It's that choice of selecting the right mix of product to meet the business need.

Except for Streaming.  Which is just utter crap.

Gartner reacts to sales and not necessarily implementation.

Citrix is selling Password Manager as part of Bundled Platinum.

Could I hear from some customers who are using Password Manager who are extremely happy with it?

By the way - What percentage of Citrix employees are using Password Manager every day to manage all their passwords?  I would bet it is a minority.

Everybody is talking baout virtualization... Let's have a look into analyst definition of virtualization. I've seen a report from several analyst that define 6 layers of virtualization (mixt of Gartner, Forrester and Credit Suisse document)

    - Presentation Virtualization layer : with CTXS and MSFT as key players
    - Application Virtualization layer : with MSFT, CTXS and SYMANTEC (Altiris) as key players
    - Operating System Virtualization layer : with VMWare, MSFT and CTXS as key players
    - Disk Virtualization layer : with CTXS as key player
    - Storage Virtualization layer : with Symantec as key player

On top of this we can add :

    - LAN virtualization layer  : with Cisco
    - WAN Virtualization layer (VPN) with Juniper and CTXS as key players

Lot of people are claiming that they are leader in the virtualization market space... They probably are with their own definition  of virtualization and market.

Nice move from CTXS to get an hypervisor. Nice move from VMWare to move in the app space... Letsee how this will become "a suite" and how product will feet in each onespecific infrastrucutre each customer have !

Password manager doesn't require a Citrix Server Farm or a Web Interface site. And as others have pointed out Application Streaming can be bought a la carte. All you need is a 5 user Presentation Server Enterprise Farm and you could have hundreds (even thousands) of users using Application Streaming a la carte licenses. And Access Gateway licenses can be bought a la carte as well (not sure why you'd want Advanced Access Control without a Citrix farm to control access to anyway). In fact other bundled features such as EdgeSight can be bought a la carte as well. As the previous poster said, if you just want one of the products, then buy that product. But if you want several of the products, then buy the bundle as it is cheaper in the bundle.

And as for Gartner reacting "to sales and not necessarily implementation", Gartner reacts to sales AND satisfaction. If cutomers are unsitisfied with the purchase to of the product, the product will not rate high on Gartner's charts.

You obviously have never used Citrix Streaming or XenServer Enterprise.  Otherwise you would understand the comments about ESX and thinstall being light years ahead.

First, before you SELL a product.  You have to have a usable product.   Citrix Streaming is NOT a usuable product, nor is XenServer (Doesn't even support shared storage over FC.  You can make it work but it's unsupported.  The Xen Hypervisior is good, but the management tools are not usuable.

By the way, how "independent" are you really, Brian?

Your content seem to take Citrix and Microsoft's side awfully
often. One would think you support them more than others.

Now how much real value is in your advice then?

Darn... Heated discussions here.  VMWare has never had competition before.  Everyone needs to sit back, relax and watch what unfolds.  ESX may be superior, but XenServer behind it's GUI blemishes is not all that bad.  I don't know about you, but I am not moving to a VDM solution anytime soon!

VMWare's stock is bloated, their market cap is bloated and eventually it will catch up with them!  

I still think Citrix's Ardence aquisition is the best catch yet!