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App Delivery Day 2 Morning Keynote

Written on Oct 24 2007 10,236 views, 27 comments


by Tim Mangan

The keynote on Wednesday morning largely revolved around three themes of virtualization.  Server, Desktop, and Application.  Well it was mostly server, with a good bit of desktop, and then Application received some lip service.  But, that was OK by me.  What I wanted to hear about today was the server virtualization.  And if yesterday was about Ardence, today was about Xen.

But before I get into that, amaisingly, Citrix gave about 20 minutes of the 90 minute keynote to Microsoft.  The Microsoft General Manager for virtualization was alone on stage talking about what Microsoft is doing in the areas of virtualizations.  And while part of that was about cooperation between Citrix and Microsoft, I was blown away that Citrix would give up that much valuable time to Microsoft.  Clearly, the state of the relationship looks improved by the XenSource purchase.

Server Virtualization

I have used the server and desktop virtualizations from both Microsoft and VMWare for some time.  But never Xen.  Oh, I signed up to be a XenSource partner and downloaded the software.  But never got around to installing it in the lab.  Why?  Priorities.  Xen was never "real enough" for very many customers, so it remained a low priority on my list and I never got to it.  That changes today.

Citrix buying XenSource actually makes great strides in validating the Xen platform.  It might not be betterthan the competition, but at least it deserves a place at the table.  Citrix Xen based solutions may or may not become the leading solution in the long run.  Without getting into the details, there are valid arguments to be made either way, but nobody can accurately predict how this will play out today.

The XenExpress  solution, which was started by XenSource and Citrix is running with is nothing short of brilliant.  New servers from multiple vendors will now ship with an entry version Xen hypervisor built in just for the asking.  This version is limited to 4 VMs, and lacks the management pieces you need, but it will wake up a lot of people to using server virtualization.  Ultimately, you don't want this express version, you want the full hypervisor but this will help open the door for a lot of people to enter the VM world.  That these hardware manufacturers are adding virtualization to what they will directly support is a big deal.

The demo of live server migration (Xen Motion) was awesome.  They had a user watching a full motion video (the movie "Top Gun") and moved his virtual machine to another hardware server while the movie ran.  I'm not sure exactly when the motion happened because I didn't even notice a glitch in the movie.  They claim only a 200ms "downtime" for the transfer.  I'll just have to trust them that the demo was real, but presumably it was.

Desktop Virtualization

This is VDI.  Quite frankly, and Citrix was open about this, the solution doesn't make complete sense for the masses YET.  But they pledge to fix that in the future.  The demos were good.  Ardence (streaming server) was integrated into the Xen console as part of the solution as well, which was interesting to happen so quickly.  There was also a promise of future trail versions to download to play with this stuff yourself.

Thoughts

The message that Citrix is delivering to the customer base at this event is clear.  Citrix is about more than Presentation Server.  And if you are not moving to these new virtualization technologies you will be left behind. (But note that the industry analysists say that today only 9% of NEW server shipments are using virtualization - so don't panic).  Last year we were wondering if Citrix could ever get over from being the "Presentation Server" company and today proved that they can.

Left mostly unsaid, but alluded to, is that moving to this brave new world provides gains in efficiencies today at the cost of relatively poorly managed complexity.  Processes, Management, and Tools around virtualization are all in their infancy compared to the non-virtual world.  Deploying today in large scale production is for companies that are leading edge.  The rest of us should be using virtualization strategically, such as in supporting test and development groups.  There is much to learn if you are not doing so today so you need to start getting your feet wet to ensure you don't drown later on.

We need more light shed not only on the bennefits of these solutions, but of the problems.  And there will be a lot of problems.  Light on the problems will lead to vendors (second or third party) creating solutions to these problems.  Citrix today did incicate a commitment to open APIs (as did Microsoft) for 3rd party integrations.  Citrix relationship with many ISVs has been strained of late, and the noises made today sound promising.  Time will tell if Citrix is ready to mend those fences and embrace what some call "co-opition".  I, for one, certainly hope so.



Comments

Guest wrote Well written
on 10-24-2007 5:07 PM
I almost cried...beautiful...

In all seriousness, very well written contribution.
Ruben Spruijt wrote Thanks
on 10-24-2007 5:10 PM
Tim,

Thanks for this review!

Ruben
Tom Lyczko wrote Looks good so far!
on 10-24-2007 6:43 PM
The more you can tell us about XenServer and the Xen hypervisor, the better, especially for SMBs who are concerned about VMware's high prices or who want alternatives. However, VMware has much more/better support and doesn't absolutely require a 64-bit processor, compared to XenServer. Thank you, Tom
Tony wrote Wake up call...
on 10-24-2007 10:21 PM
Do people really need to "wake up" to virtualization? If you're not already virtualizing servers or at least heavily researching virtualization, you're probably still running Netware 3.12 servers with Windows 95 clients. Personally, I think ESX 3.5 is going to crush anything Xen or Viridian throws it's way....it might cost more, but you get what you pay for.
Guest wrote Re: Wake up call...
on 10-25-2007 12:28 AM
Virtualization is in its infancy with Intel and AMD based platforms. Period.

ESX is the defacto standard. However, many people will move to Viridian due to the fact that it will ship with the MS OS. Xen will add funtionality on top of Viridian just like Presentation Server adds functionality on top of Terminal Services.

You have VMware teaming up with Cisco and Intel. Citrix teams up with Microsoft and Intel. AMD is playing with both. It will be interesting to see how this shakes up.

I will say that while VMware is the defacto standard on the back end server virtualization front, Citrix does seem to have a better end to end story about how to deliver virtualization from server to desktop.
Tony wrote Re: Re: Wake up call...
on 10-25-2007 8:30 AM
Exactly....right now all Citrix has is a "story". Don't get me wrong, I'm a big Citrix fan and I think they've made some good strategic acquisitions like Xen and Ardence, but I still haven't seen this polished end to end product that everyone is talking about. VMWare is the defacto standard because their product actually exists. All Citrix has is a lot of theory that all sounds great on paper. I'll tell you this....If I have to use that shitty CPS 4.5 management console to manage this stuff, I won't be a happy camper. I never thought I actually say "Please bring back the CMC!!!!"
Guest wrote Re: Re: Re: Wake up call...
on 10-25-2007 11:53 AM
I totally agree. I am curious from those at iForum if they are actually talking about the 1 product that Citrix is known for which is Presentation Server. What is the future hold for Presentation Server and what improvements and new features are they planning if any.
Guest wrote PS Future enchancements
on 10-25-2007 2:42 PM
I was at iForum (actually sitting in airport right now) and 2 things off the top of my head in regards to future PS enhancements are tighter integration with Active Directory and Group Policy bases Citrix settings. Also they are moving away from the CMC and all Citrix management will be done from an MMC 3.0 snap-in. They are also planning on seperating the console so that admins can have their tasks and views and suppport staff will only see what they need. Can't remember if these features were part of project delaware or parra but, pretty nice stuff... Can register for early release of project delware at http://na.citrix-news.net/u/register.php?CID=129009680&f=13791.
Guest wrote Project Apollo
on 10-25-2007 9:53 PM
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Project Apollo, one of the demos that Templeton did in his closing keynote. He didn't give much details but it looks to be a future version of CPS that will allow 3-D images, streamed video, etc to run effectively on Citrix. Templeton showed a published Vista desktop with video running on it and the performance was unreal. If Citrix can indeed deliver on this, it would be the last "piece" that's missing with apps working on CPS.
Guest wrote only 9% server virtualized ??
on 10-26-2007 7:16 AM
Don't get fooled by the 9% number, keep in mind, that every "virtualized" Server accounts for 5 to 10 phsical server so the number should be more 20%+
Tim Mangan wrote Re: Looks good so far!
on 10-26-2007 8:35 AM
I am guessing that more people in the long run will go with the Veridian Hypervisor over Xen. While Xen has the express hook, Microsoft will be including it with the OS shipment. Both companies (Citrix/Microsoft) will also fully support each others hypervisor. So unless one of them really stands out over the other (and right now there is no compelling reason other than shipment dates) it will be a matter of convenience.

Looking at them versus VMWare is a whole other fish. VMWare has the market name and share. They perform better. But they are a whole lot more expensive, and their implementation is more limiting in hardware choices. Price is an easy problem to solve, but the latter requires more flexible modularity in the Hypervisor. This latter is what Citrix is really saying when they boast how "thin" their hypervisor is. The former is mostly a matter of how fast Citrix/Xen can play catchup in features and mind-share.
Guest wrote Re: Re: Re: Wake up call...
on 10-26-2007 1:39 PM
You'll be happy to know that they may be addressig this. Alot of the issue with the 4.5 CMC are due to trying to make the information realtime. Looks like with Delaware Citrix is splitting the consoles into a more static admin/management console and a realtime adaptation of the edgesite (lite) (to replace RM) with the typical sesion management features incorporated. They have also tried to improve the organization of the Admin's console. They should have the beta available soon.
Guest wrote Re: Project Apollo
on 10-26-2007 1:50 PM
While I was also impressed, I thing there is a limitation. Although not stated, if I'm piecing previous information together properly, Apollo is likely a win32 feature only, so not too earth shaking. Virtual Vista is only really appealing if it could be run on a low (or Zero) managament client. IMHO MS has never made suce a client. If I could run it on a Wyse v10, (WTOS) then I'd be really excited. But I'm pretty sure this technology interfaces with client side features that are only available on Win32.
Peter Bats wrote Re: Re: Project Apollo
on 10-26-2007 2:30 PM
Well actually what we're attempting to achieve goes probably even beyond remoting Aero to a Wyse V10. You might want to check out the blog of Derek Thorslund on multi-media at http://citrixcommunity.com/blogs/multimedia_virtualization/archive/tags/multimedia/default.aspx especially on Vista Aero Desktop remoting (http://citrixcommunity.com/blogs/multimedia_virtualization/archive/2007/10/16/Sneak-peek_3A00_-Multimedia-virtualization-demos-at-iForum.aspx).


Craig Miller wrote Side topic
on 10-26-2007 2:41 PM
I wasn't able to make it, but now that Citrix's App Delivery Expo is over....I'm curious, was any different then previous iForums? Were other vendors their showing how their products deliver and manage applications such as Altiris, Kace, Microsoft SMS, etc. Does the new event's new name fit its title, or was it still iForum?
Guest wrote Re: Re: Looks good so far!
on 10-26-2007 2:51 PM
So you can't run Xen on legacy hardware? Well.... WAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

It's lack of legacy hardware support is what makes the Xen hypervisor "thin"? HA HA.... you made a funny!!!!

If I'm looking for performance, then I'm certainly not looking to used recycled servers in my implementation. For performance you buy the latest and greatest hardware. And Xen will work on pretty much any server you buy today.

The VMware hypervisor can work on any hardware (including legacy) because it intercepts every single call to the processor. It has to, or else the processor could execute a command that affects other operating systems on the box that it shouldn't. Xen doesn't intercept these calls, because Xen only runs on servers that have virtualization technologies built into the processor and BIOS. The lack of intercepting thse calls works because virtualization aware hardware already knows not to execute commands that could affect other operating systems on the box. There's no reason for the hypervisor to intercept these calls on virtualization aware hardware. You put VMware on virtualization aware hardware, and now you have a "thick" hypervisor. The Xen hypervisor is thin because it doesn't have all the unneccesary "intercepting" code that VMware has. It also doesn't help that VMware's 64-bit capability is nothing more than extensions within their 32-bit product. It's not a true 64-bit written hypervisor like Xen is. Xen is a thinner hypervisor than VMware is. There is no if or buts about it. You pay more for VMware because... well... they're VMware... or for some reason you like to virtualize legacy hardware.
Greg Reese wrote out it all together
on 10-26-2007 3:15 PM
It seems to me that when you combine these virtual concepts with App Streaming and Web Interface, you get an extremely potent one two punch.

Provision my Presentation servers virtually to stream the apps, provision the desktops to the users, those desktops use the streamed apps. Who cares how many you have. Your work is done. Two images to maintain and some apps. I'm lazy as hell. This will be great.

Guest wrote Re: Re: Re: Project Apollo
on 10-26-2007 3:30 PM
When it is said that something "goes beyond" it typically means that not only is a given feature accomplished, but that this is only a subset of the features included. I do not believe this feature will be supported on (non win32 clients). I think (but hope I'm wrong) that this is an inherently MS-only architecture. Do you mean that the goal of Appollo is greater (more significant) than remoting Vista to a Wyse non-MS thin client? My point is that if the Appollo feature set comes at the cost still having to manage an Xp (or XPe) endpoint, then this is a huge limitation. Does Citrix still claim that Linux is the same tier client as win32?
Tim Mangan wrote Re: Re: Re: Looks good so far!
on 10-26-2007 3:55 PM
I think you mistook my intent. Because the drivers are not built into the Xen Hypervisor it can more easily support more types of hardware. All you need is a Linux driver for it. WIth ESX you must wait for VMWare to add the driver. I'm not advocating for one or the other - just pointing out the differences.
Guest wrote Re: Project Apollo
on 10-26-2007 7:45 PM
The performance of Apollo was NOT unreal. It was very choppy and unacceptable for most.
Tim Mangan wrote Re: Re: Re: Re: Wake up call...
on 10-27-2007 8:01 AM
My final post from iForum talks about this. Unfortunately we are having a problem in getting it published. Hopefully it will appear soon.
Guest wrote Re: Side topic
on 10-27-2007 5:36 PM
citrix said this was the first year of a three-year transition into a broader industry event. They definitely had a lot more presense from the big boys in speaking sessions (microsoft, ibm, hp, oracle, sap, intel, etc). The breakout sessions, however, were almost all citrix and the show floor was mostly citrix-friendly vendors. It'll be ineresting to see what happens in may next year where they claim they'll have more vendor diversity. All in the right direction from where I stand!
Guest wrote Re: Re: Project Apollo
on 10-27-2007 10:59 PM
Wow, you must have had a long night in Vegas....I thought the performance was VERY good.
Guest wrote Re: Re: Project Apollo
on 10